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www.coachingwithjanel.com
Transform Your Story Podcast - Episode 6: Interrupting Patterns - February 2025
Janel voiceover: Hello again, it's Janel Guevara. Every time I think that I have found all the episodes that the girls and I recorded in January of 2024, I find another nugget of goodness. Join us for the conversation after the conversation.
Janel voiceover: [music] Welcome to Transform Your Story. I’m Janel Guevara. My clients call me their fairy godmother, but actually, I’m a life coach with a love of words and the women who use them.
Janel voiceover: Join me and my daughters as we have honest conversations about writing, life, and redeeming Happily Ever After in the shadows of the stories we never expected to tell. We recount our experiences as a way to help you see yours in a new light.
Janel voiceover: From content creation to defining your audience and niche, we break down the process into simple steps with practical application. That allows us to nurture hope from ashes, so you can too. Let’s transform your story. [music ends]
Janel: You know, we're kind of doing a debrief here after we've recorded these first three podcasts. There's such, [sigh]
Ariana: [inaudible] behind the scenes.
Janel: Yeah we're gonna use this as behind-the-scenes or something. We’ll stick it here, but I think what makes all of it so complex is, you know, I was sharing the story about the church lady that I went to when my oldest biological child was six months old, and I went and asked her for help, and she patted my hand and said keep praying. That feels like a million years away. I mean just a million years away. It's mind-blowing to me because I know now that she was just a catalyst in my story, you know, that propelled me along, but to think that I used to believe with my whole heart that this was like a pivotal defining moment in my story in the way that I did, is just mind-blowing. Oh God, I just wanna ahh and umm this because I just, I just—[sigh]
Melinda: Well, it was such an obvious example of, like, when we’re young, and when we’re autistic, and we’re doing things. We’re not quite right, and people look at you and they're like um, no. It's subtle and it stings, but to finally work up the courage to go to someone and be like, I need help. And then to get the cold wash back of like, just pray about it because that's what normal people should do. It’s so much greater that it’s the biggest example you felt of that covert stuff going on behind the scenes. That’s why you thought it was that pivotal moment it’s because it’s the strongest example in your memory. But like part of the reason it hurt so dang bad is because your whole life you’ve been asking for help and trying to understand, and how do I do this life thing, and everyone just keeps giving you these answers that are completely useless because they don’t understand you.
Janel: Completely useless. And I do write about that. You haven't read it yet, but I've actually written about that in my e-mail series where I really was devastated by this, but I know that what she saw was a young woman, a very young woman, a very new mother who was overwhelmed by everything and, you know, new moms in general, most of them struggle to become mothers because it's such a radical departure from their previous life. You’ve got to care for this person, you gotta keep them alive, and feed them, and make sure no harm comes to them. I mean, that's stressful enough, but having the stress of that over top of all this other stuff that I didn’t understand was going on, and that I had lived through and experienced, it was beyond overwhelming. And I mean I know why I sat there and try to hold back the tears because I was just crushed.
Janel: Everybody's like “Oh well just ask for help, just asking for help, just ask for help.” I did ask for help. I was thinking back, my husband and I were talking about this in the last year, we've kicked around all kinds of stuff, and I'm like I did ask for help. I asked for help multiple times. The answers I was given were non-answers. I often joke that I only ask the hard questions because I've already tried everything else and it's come up short. You know, like whether it's cleaning out the toaster or there's a functionality on a website that I'm supposed to know how to do it and it doesn't work. And so, when I actually contact tech support it’s because I have exhausted every one of the basic common sense entry-level—
Ariana: Yes, I have turned it on and off again.
Janel: Yes, I have turned it on and off. Absolutely. The basic things that were supposed to work didn’t. And now I'm just stuck. We had Internet issues and I was on the phone literally every other week with the Internet provider and after like the sixth time I would just be on here, I’m like “okay, I have turned it on and off. I have reset it like you told me to do all the other six times and I'm still having issues.” “I'm sorry ma'am I still have to read my script and go through this to double check and make sure.” And at one point, I was just like, “I wanna talk to your supervisor. I've done all of this. There's a real problem.” This went off and on they sent techs out for like two years and it wasn't till the end where the guys like “I've seen this”—It was like the supervisor’s supervisor who came out and said “yeah, we've known we've had a problem in this neighborhood, so we've just been moving the card in the box around” and you know, because sometimes it would work for couple months and then we’d go back into this pattern. Somebody would come out apparently they just move the card around. Well, it turns out that the card that they were plugging our card into was actually bad and it took the supervisor’s supervisor coming out to just finally go “you know what, I'm just gonna put a new card in it.” And until he pulled it out to replace it and then looked at it after it was out, it was only then that he realized that the main board card was broken. And then after that, there was no other problems.
Janel: And I feel like when we're stuck in covert abuse, or we’re undiagnosed neurodivergent, or we’re struggling and wrestling with generational trauma, and we don't realize its impact, we just keep moving stuff around. We keep trying other things. We keep going back and forth, and it doesn't work. It doesn't fix it. The problem comes back and we're like “[wailing] why?” It's exasperating, but the problem is we haven't actually addressed the problem. So it becomes a game of gaslighting because, well, there's no problem. We fixed this problem. Like no, the problem is still there. Because it came back and it's come back. And it’s come back again and again and again and again.
Janel: And until you get the root of the problem, where you just change the main board that nobody thought to change, or identify that main problem, we just keep going around in circles. And so after you change the main board, and you’ve updated and, you actually understand what’s going on, the things that you thought were a problem in the beginning—there was like these lightning bolt moment—these lightning rod moments feel so far away and so disconnected because it wasn't even a symptom of a problem. It was there was merely a red flag that a problem existed, but it had nothing to do with the actual problem which sounds stupid but if you've been there and experienced it, you know what I'm talking about. So today, instead of looking at these big memorable moments I'm going “Okay well what are these obscure little details that I didn't notice before?”
Janel: I have been finding answers in the strangest places over the smallest detail which, I don’t remember which one of the girls talked about but it is those little moments nobody noticed because you didn't get your needs met in such a basic level that, you know, why would that be a thing at a bigger level.
Janel: Yeah I just really felt compelled to talk because, I mean, some of this stuff, you know, I bring it up and it's like, well what do you talk about? It's like well, the real problem is like huge to face but for so many years it was all these other things that seemed ironically almost immaterial now. And these things rocked my world and I hung on to them. And I look back and I'm like, I don't even remember what was on my original list of things that were pivotal moments without going back and looking at them going “oh yeah, that was there, and that was there, and that was there, like my God, this is what I thought was the real cause of my issues? Wow.” Until you really peel back the layers and start seeing the pattern—
Melinda: There’s a reason it’s called the root cause. it's buried in the ground you have to dig it up.
Janel: Well that's a good point. Yep, it's a very very good point. Because that is what it's at. And you know some people are like—some of us have never had those basic experiences where our needs were met, and we didn't feel overwhelmed and we understood what was going on. And when you don't have those experiences, it's hard to dive in with a coach who's like “well, just embrace your femininity and just do it even if you're scared.” It's like Oh my God. I mean, I—when you live in a constant state of panic because you know picking food for dinner you know couldn't break you out in hives and cause breathing problems, you know, when you can’t even feel safe to pick out dinner, how do you feel safe and fight the fear to do something as terrifying as you know sharing your story.
Ariana: Drudging up your past.
Janel: Or drudging up your past and facing it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Melinda: Not to mention, some of our patterns were formed in such early childhood that we don’t even remember why they were formed or when.
Janel: Right.
Melinda: It starts from the womb.
Janel: Well that's what I'm doing right now. I'm actually reading Mark Wolynn’s book It Didn't Start With You. I started reading it about five years ago and I got into it, and it triggered me, and until I started going back last month and started reading it again, and revisiting the trauma, and the research, and the studies that they've done that .2 genetic DNA in vitro transference of trauma from grandmother to mother to daughter. It's just mind-blowing. The aspects and the connections. And when you have generational trauma, Oh my God. It's just passed down and the studies that they've done on it are beyond fascinating. I am fascinated. And it resonates so deeply in my story. But one of the reasons I stopped reading is because I didn't feel safe enough to actually look at what he was saying or the implications of what he was saying.
Janel: And then I also realized I was triggered because of what he was implying. Because I felt like I had already done that. You know, he implies that you have to rebuild your relationship with your parents. You know, when your support needs were not met by your parents, yeah they gave you food clothing shelter, they didn't beat you whatever, but when your autistic support needs are not met and you're wandering around and you see how all of this stuff snowballed together it's like, there's an anger there. I mean, understanding when you're a parent yourself, you understand how hard sometimes it can be to meet your child's needs. Particularly when you don't understand what they're asking or what they want, but it goes at such a deeper level. And I had always given that that leeway because well, they had this happen, they had that happen. So they’re like this because that happened, and it made sense in my head. But there is an empathy and compassion that we need to cultivate for ourselves before we can go to that place to offer empathy. And I think part of the covert trauma and the generational abuse and the neurodivergence is that we mask our needs. Because it's easier to just pretend we don't have them. That's causes its own kind of trauma.
Melinda: Oh, then you learn to crave the punishment. Cuz you're in that situation, you know that you can't please them, and eventually you're going to get punished so you just come to expect it. Then you get to a safe place and you’re with someone, and you're waiting for them to punish you. And they don't. And that is even worse, and then you realize how badly you want to be punished just so it can be over. And the anticipation and the anxiety from that. It’s like—it’s so, you don’t even realize how bad—
Janel: It’s mind-boggling—
Melinda: —until you’re out of it. Because I definitely still—I’ve been with my partner for like, almost a year and a half and I still like, something came up and I was waiting for him to punish me and I just wanted him to do it and get it over with. Like I wanted him to get mad at me and punish me. I wanted it. Because then I knew it could be over. Like he wasn’t even mad. Nothing. It was in my head because I just expected it because I hadn’t lived up to an ideal standard that had been placed on me by someone else.
Janel: Yep. To get into that safe place and experience that and wait for the other shoe to drop, and then it never drops, it's like “Oh my God are we just waiting? Are we prolonging the torture?” but it's like no. This is healthy behavior, and we have to reacclimate ourselves and learn what healthy emotional behavior is. If you haven't had that modeled ever, that's a lot to figure out on your own.
Melinda: Yup.
Janel: But that's part of the change and that change? That change starts with safety and being honest with yourself about whether you feel safe or not. Some people are going to be like “I’m fine. I’m safe. I’m fine.” Because they do not have what they need to feel safe enough to even look at what's going on. And I've got people like that in my life and it breaks my heart because there is nothing that I can do, other than continue to be compassionate towards them, that will allow them to finally look at what is really bugging them once and for all.
Janel: So I just tell my story. It lands where it lands. Oh my God, 20 years ago—more than 20 years ago, almost 25 years ago—I was part of an organizing forum because I thought all I needed to do was learn to organize and fix all my problems. Learn to cook, learn to organize, and keep things straightened up, and my ex-husband would be fantastically happy and that was a lie. One of the gals on the organizing forum that I had a lot of respect for, and I actually got to meet her in person several times and we talked, she said “When the student is ready, the teacher will come.” And unfortunately, the teacher can teach, but if the student is not ready to look at what the teacher has to offer, they're not gonna get it.
Janel: And even with the two of you, they will tell stories about how I've been enthusiastically sharing all I have learned for so many years and it's like the whole notion of throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. I wasn't able to articulate but I knew that they wouldn't pick it up until they were ready in place. I still try to explain some of this stuff this whole safety thing that Melinda's dealing with with her partner right now, is a phenomenon that I tried to explain years ago, but couldn't articulate. I still remember the day she was like “oh my gosh, I know what it feels like to be safe. I now know what you were explaining” and—
Melinda: You guys, I like, hated her when she first got married. Not really, but she was just all about “Oh my god, he loves me and this is so wonderful and I feel so safe, and I’m happy.” Meanwhile, you know I'm like mid-divorce from, you know, whatever and I have all this stuff going on with my kid and there's so much going on, and here she is living like a fairy tale on the other side of the country. She up and abandoned me y’all.
Janel: [laughter]
Melinda: Abandoned me to the other side of the country. And I’m just sitting here in this horrible phase of my life that she had just gone through, and now she’s at the happy ending and I just had to listen to her for years and years. And I was just like, it's not that I'm not happy you're happy, it's just that oh man, I’m not. I’m not in a place to hear it. You know what I mean? Like I’m so happy you’re happy, but please shut up. [laugh]
Janel: Well, you know, in my defense, it wasn't all happy happy, joy joy. I did stop and listen to them in their anguish and whatever and sat with them—
Melinda: Oh, no no no, she did. She did. But it was just like, the contrast between that as well, with all was just like [exasperated sigh]
Janel: Yeah, it triggered her. It triggered her trauma and it triggered everything, and even, you know, Ana lives, still at home, I remember, I have to tell this story about the cat tree.
Ariana: [laugh]
Janel: She walked in right after we moved in—
Ariana: Literally, not even five minutes after it I entered the house for the first time.
Janel: Yes, she walks over and she breaks the cat scratching post.
Ariana: [laugh]
Janel: Walks into it. The horror and fear. Then my husband's like “That's okay we'll just fix it.”
Ariana: He wasn’t happy, but.
Janel: Of course, he’s not happy when somebody breaks something. We had been in the car for like four days driving across country from Boston to Oregon. And so the first thing, literally five minutes in the door and she steps on and she breaks the scratching post for the cat. I mean, the horror that I saw on her face and he's like “It's okay” he didn't get angry, he didn't get frustered, he didn't get anything. He was like “we'll just fix it.” And she—
Melinda: That’s that contrast piece I was talking about earlier. It’s totally that, like oh, the whole world isn’t about to end because you're unhappy? They can just be unhappy and handle it without taking it out on someone else?
Janel: Or being angry or being upset or yelling or hollering and it's mind-blowing because it's like your existence was an imposition to them.
Melinda: Oh, but it was also, your existence was an imposition to them if you were not of service to them at that time.
Janel: Yes. Yes.
Melinda: If you were of service, you were fantastic. But when you weren’t of service you were just in their way and an imposition.
Janel: Yeah. Ana really struggled with it for several years still waiting for him to come back at her and get upset.
Ariana: We don’t even have it anymore.
Janel: Well, we got rid of it because we traded it because it was too short for him. But anyway it was just that thing, but that is acclimating yourself to a safe person in a safe environment is mind-blowing when you’ve never had that.
Melinda: It is hard. It is hard.
Janel: I knew it would be a culture shock for the bio-kids that moved with me and it was. It really really was. And I mean, even in the happiness though, you know I was naive, enough to think that simply leaving the environment that we had been in was going to be enough. Unfortunately leaving the environment is helpful but you actually have to begin the work to rebuild your life to figure out what's going on. And that's what nobody talks about with complex trauma. It's not just leaving a toxic environment. It is taking the steps to go, “okay, this was toxic. What is healthy? What do I need?”
Melinda: Oh my—so many people make the mistake of jumping from one situationship to another situationship because it’ll be a different situationship, so it'll be better. I’m in a bad one now, so the next one will be better. There’s no self-reflection. There’s no pause. They just think the next person is gonna fix it. You are gonna repeat the pattern. You're gonna repeat the pattern. Even I, a year and a half in, am repeating toxic patterns because I don’t know better. You know, I’m panicking and all that because that’s what you know.
Janel: And that I think is the thing. Unless we stop and break the pattern we're gonna repeat it and we will never break the pattern if we do not have the safety in our heart and mind and body to actually stop and look at something and go, “Oh this is toxic. This is hurting me. This painful.” So wow.
Melinda: This is a problem.
Janel: This is a problem.
Melinda: People who won't look at it and just keep repeating it, even if it looks different, there is still that underlying threat. If you don't find it and you're not aware of it, or if you're willfully ignoring it, it doesn't mean it's not affecting your life.
Janel: But that's not—I just have to really be specific and say that's not meant to chastise you because you're doing it wrong and you need to do it our way. It's not.
Melinda: No. You have to be aware.
Janel: Yeah, if you're struggling, it's not a matter of chastizing yourself because you could do better. The matter is actually stopping and going “I have a need for safety, how am I gonna find safety?” Whether it's a little corner, whether it's going to the coffee shop on the corner just to sit there by yourself, or going to the library, or locking yourself in a bedroom, or reaching out and talking to somebody that seems like you might be able to trust them. It's not about crucifying yourself because you’ve crucified yourself enough. It's like you need to stop and listen to your body, and what is your body screaming for. Most of the time, to get out of this situation, it's screaming because you wanna be safe.
Melinda: You’re looking to meet a need and you're not identifying the need correctly.
Janel: Some of the things that my husband and I have been working on as a couple in the last month is me acknowledging that I have needs that I am not acknowledging. He sometimes gets frustrated with me because I won't ask for something that he knows I want. Sometimes he'll give it to me and just be like “listen, here. I know you want this.” And that's fantastic when he does that, but there's stuff that I still haven't worked out in my head, but he feels there's a need but he doesn't know how to meet it or help me meet it or even articulate what it is.
Janel: This is an ongoing thing. I've been unpacking trauma for eight years now, and really really hard in the last three to four years. When you have had boatloads of trauma in your life, and generations, and you’re autistic, and none of it made any sense, it is about finding safety.
Janel: And so the first step in any of this journey is “what can I do to feel safe?” Not just like, safe in the moment, but “what do I need to feel safe in my body consistently?” And then recognize that once you find that safety, there is a really big possibility of recoil that it will feel so unfamiliar that it will scare you and trigger you. Some days it’s gonna be really hard. It's gonna be awful hard, terrible, and wicke,d and just feel the worst and you’re gonna wonder why you just didn't stay. But I encourage you to seek the safety, to identify the safety, and run to it because that is how you transform your story. It’s the very first step.
Janel: I feel like my afterthought decompression has become a whole other podcast because I feel like it's so important. But again, I'm gonna leave a ton of resources in the comments for anybody who might be struggling. There's some books. There'll be some links, and some people that I trust to support you in a way that you might need.
Janel: So thank you for being here and I wish you safety. And that is my longing for you is that if you do not feel safe that you will find a place of safety. And if you do kind of feel safe, that you will be able to identify a place really makes you feel safe and grounded to help you find it in more of your life and your experiences.
Janel: Until next time.
Ariana: Bye
Janel: [laugh]
Melinda: Bye! See, I said it.
Janel: [laugh]
Janel voiceover: [music] Thanks so much for joining us today! I’m Janel Guevara. I hope you caught a glimmer of hope, a glimpse of possibility, and a sprinkle of fairy dust. Join us next time when we take another step towards Transforming Your Story.
Janel voiceover: Content for educational purposes only. Our stories are not your stories Please be cautious and contact your local domestic violence hotline if you need support. [music ends]
