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www.coachingwithjanel.com
Transform Your Story Podcast - Episode 9: Thoughts for New Writers - March 2025
Janel voiceover: [music] Welcome to Transform Your Story. I’m Janel Guevara. My clients call me their fairy godmother, but actually, I’m a life coach with a love of words and the women who use them.
Janel voiceover: Join me and my daughters as we have honest conversations on writing, life, and redeeming Happily Ever After in the shadows of the stories we never expected to tell. We recount our experiences as a way to help you see yours in a new light.
Janel voiceover: From content creation to defining your audience and niche, we break down the process into simple steps with practical application. That allows us to nurture hope from ashes, so you can too. Let’s transform your story. [music ends]
Janel: Hello! Welcome to Transform Your Story. This is Janel Guevara. Today, I am here with Ariana.
Ariana: Hello!
Janel: Melinda is getting settled into her new place and needs a little bit of space to unpack all of her boxes. So Ana and I, for the next couple weeks are gonna share some thoughts that we've had. And then as soon as Melinda's ready she's gonna jump right back in with us.
Janel: Ana and I actually recorded this podcast about two weeks ago. But, you know, warming up and trying to find our feet—
Ariana: –Disastrous results.
Janel: [laugh] No, it wasn't.
Ariana: Let me rephrase that. Hilarious results, but not really suitable for a general audience [laughter]
Janel: Yeah, it was. It was. We broke down into a pile of giggles, which was uneditable so, yeah. We are here today revisiting what we talked about.
Ariana: Writing
Janel: We did. We talked about writing.
Ariana: And speech.
Janel: And speech and the difference, and yeah. How is that applicable to telling your story? The first bunch of podcasts that we recorded, we talked a lot about trauma and story and how sometimes we don't see the things in our story that make our story our story. But today with just Ana and I, we're just going to talk about the essence of writing and how do you get your story on paper? How do you talk about it? How do you tell it? Where's the dynamic? What is the secret sauce? How do we go from the idea that, you know, the ideas that I talk about in my resource, Five Steps to Share Hope from Your Story, how do we get from step two, which is making a list of the things that happened to us, and how do we get those into a usable format to actually put them out there.
Janel: Writing is one of those things that people don't think, oh, well, you're a writer. Okay, what does that mean? When I was a teenager, I used to think that writers were these people who sat down and write these big academic tomes and, you know, you have Lord of the Rings, or Narnia, or War and peace. What?
Ariana: Dune.
Janel: Dune. Dune is younger than that. When was Dune written?
Ariana: Like the same time as Lord of the Rings.
Janel: Really? It's that old?
Ariana: Yeah.
Janel: Yeah, this is why I don't write fiction. Anyways, some of these big epic epic tales. You know, I used to love Louisa May Alcott and, you know, Little Women was so sweet because I used to want to grow up and have a whole house full of girls and we'd all have tea and everything à la Little Women. And I love Jules Verne, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was one of my favorite books.
Janel: And… Ella Montgomery. Anne of Green Gables, man. When Anne Shirley says, “oh, if you only knew all the things that I didn't say, you would be so proud of me.” [laugh] I relate with that on a level that others may never quite understand.
Janel: So, when we talk about writing. A lot of people automatically default to either the classics or work that comes out of academia. Which is very—what do they even call that? I don't even know what the fiction—the stories—what do they call that, Ana?
Ariana: What do you mean? I definitely don't default to either of those.
Janel: Oh, what—
Ariana: I default to fantasy and YA fantasy. And just like fantasy. That's what I default to. I almost never think about the classics. And definitely not academic. At all.
Janel: And if Melinda were here, she'd be all like “it’s about the romance!” [laugh] But, you know, as an editor I have a little bit different spin on that because I've written and worked with nonfiction all my life.
Ariana: Yeah.
Janel: —So on one hand, when I—
Ariana:—We just have different tastes.
Janel: Well, different tastes, different mission, different vibes, different experiences. And I am not an academic writer. Not at all. I mean, I have always been someone who writes for commercial publication. People don't necessarily recognize that academic writing is very different from commercial writing that you publish.
Janel: Now, I'm sure, you know, it depends on what genre you're working for, and what your publisher is, and what you're trying to accomplish with the work that you write. But today's writing, even the published stuff that has made it through publishing houses and have gone through agents. It's a very different style of writing for fiction versus nonfiction. And just in the the genres in general.
Janel: So for me, what I have always enjoyed reading are books that feel like you're sitting down with the author over a hot cup of something and having a heart-to-heart chat. Whether it's a novel that I'm just like, slinking off into. Or it's something I'm writing. Or something I'm reading. When I stumbled on Gretchen Rubin’s book, The Happiness Project, about, I don't know, six years ago, I really loved her style. It was both factual, but clear, but personable. And I feel the same way about the other authors that are my absolute favorite. For many years, John Eldredge who wrote Wild at Heart and some of those books on the Dare to Desire and Sacred Romance, very personable, engaging, even though they're nonfiction. Who else is on my list?
Ariana: I mean, you just read Cultish by Amanda Montell and talked about how engaging her writing is. And, I don't know, conversational maybe.
Janel: Yes.
Ariana: How easy it is to read. Even I enjoyed the book and I don't particularly like nonfiction.
Janel: Yes. Ana must be forced to read nonfiction. [laugh]
Ariana: I actually picked up that book before you did. I'll have you know, for the record. I found that book, and I enjoyed it first. [laugh] You finished it like in two days but I found it.
Janel:Yes, yes, you did.
Ariana: I win
Janel: Oh, you won. [continued laughter]
Ariana: I win this one.
Janel: It irritates them. It irritates both Melinda and Ana because I'm like, “oh, look, hey, here's this book. It would really help you.”
Ariana: Every other week she has like three new book recommendations.
Janel: And Ana’s like, “I ain't reading none of it.” And Melinda's like, “ah no.” So for me, I really love books that are conversational, even if they're factual. So when I stumbled on Brene Brown's work, you know, two months ago or so. Her work is equally engaging, but it's also factual. But she's very practical with her stories and application of all of that. It's like how does that work? How does somebody cultivate a writing style that fits them and who they are? Is it the words? Is it the styles? Is it the punctuation? Is it the grammar? How does somebody find their writing style?
Janel: I have joked for years that the first 20,000 words are the hardest to write.
Ariana: When I started drafting my one story, She'll be like, “the first 10,000 words are the hardest!” And I made the first 10,000. I'm like, “Mom, it's still hard.” And she's like, “the first 20,000 words are the hardest!” I'm like, “Really? Did you just change this up on me?”
Janel: No. 20,000 for me is the ceiling. But with clarity—with experience comes clarity. And it's the first 20,000—Here you go, wait for this—it's the first 20,000 that you write about your desired topic. You know, all the other stuff, yes, it really, it helps. It's clarity. It teaches you what you like, you don't like. Now, listen here. Don't look at me. See, you can't see her smirking smile. [laugh] But she just listened—recommended one of the other podcasts and what she's been looking at is some of Brandon Sanderson.
Ariana: Sanderson. Brandon Sanderson
Janel: Thank you. Brandon Sanderson. What was his advice on writing and getting your first novel published? Huh?
Ariana: Basically, all of his advice—his recurring advice—is just like write so many books. The one thing you said was ideas are cheap, but the writing is the most important. And it's basically, like you can come up with the most lousy idea. Just write it. Like literally the advice is just write so much. Just write everything all the time.
Janel: Yeah, exactly. And then at some point it clicks.
Ariana: Yeah, his one advice, I thought it was funny, because I realized that I did this at one point. It's like basically come up with a cheap knockoff of a mix between two stories that you like and just write that. Just for experience. And I realized when I was younger I started writing this story. It was basically How To Train Your Dragon. [laugh] I'm like, “oh my gosh, this is so cool. I want to write the story just for experience and I'm going to love it!” And it's How To Train Your Dragon. But with like Big Cats. Oh my gosh.
Janel: Well, and she's embarrassed by that. And I've told her—
Ariana: I'm not embarrassed by that now. But when I realized it, I was like, oh drat, this could never be a published story. Which isn't true. I was young in my defense.
Janel: She was probably, what, 12? 13?
Ariana: Yeah, something like that.
Janel: Okay, well, we'll give you a pass for that.
Ariana: Yeah, yeah.
Janel: But there is, it is about finding our style and it is about putting that first 20,000 words down intentionally. Trying to find your voice, find your story. It is much easier if you understand what you're trying to share with the world. It makes those first 20,000 words, the next 20,000 words easier.
Janel: My nurturing sequence for my email subscribers, I started working on three and a half, almost four years ago. And it was like at the beginning of me really clarifying my process and trying to clean it up and figure it out. And I started actually based on an exercise I was doing for a coaching certification course I was taking. And I went back through it. I'm like, “it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. Okay, I did this. I made this list of things that happen. How do I? How do I make it work? It doesn't make any sense.” In the confusion of why things weren't working, I found clarity. Because just making the list of things that you want to write about, it's like the second step in this five-piece puzzle of sharing your content and creating an audience.
Janel: Once you have these details. It becomes, “okay, where are the patterns that these details form?” And then once you see that, it's like, oh, I can actually start writing about it. Because it's easier, so much easier, Oh my gosh, It is so much easier to write about something when you know what it is you're trying to say. So just writing about the lady that I've talked about on occasion, the older lady when I asked for help and she just patted my hand and said, “oh, God will get you there.” See, for me, it was like, nobody is there to help.
Janel: But in reality, as, you know, in reality 25 years later, as I understand how my story played out and the details. What I didn't understand about that story is, I didn't know what kind of help I was asking for. And that becomes the core of our story. And once we understand that core of our story, then we can shift into the practical aspect of writing about our story.
Ariana: You can't help other people if you don't know how you need to be helped.
Janel: Yeah, even if your grammar and style are perfect—
Ariana: The content can be off.
Janel: Oh, absolutely.
Ariana: It's like that one meme. That's like you become who you needed to be when you were younger. The person that would have helped you when you were younger. So if you don't know who would have helped you when you were younger, then you can't become that person for other people.
Janel: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It is true. Part of being a writer or a content creator is learning how to take our experiences and translating them into something that somebody else can take away a lesson, wisdom, help, support, kindness, just a little bit of, you know, a little bit of fairy dust. Because I like a conversational tone. I tell my clients “write like you would speak.” With the caveat that speaking and verbal communication, 80% of it is body language, and inflection, the tone in our voice. Because I can say something like, “Yeah, right.” And you know, I'm being a smartass. Or I can be like, “Yeah, right.” And that gives a whole different vibe to the same words.
Ariana: Or like, “yeah, Right.”
Janel: Yeah!
Ariana: Right?
Janel: Yeah. But it is. And as writers, people who use audio and video don't, I don't think they struggle with it enough, for them, it's more about finding the story and sharing the story. But for people who use written communication, there is an art to language. Yes, we want our words to reflect a simplistic conversational tone, but that tone has to actually say what we mean.
Janel: That's kind of where the—That's where all the chaos happens on Facebook. When people write something like, “yeah, right. This oughta happen, that oughta happen.” And reading it, it comes across as very mean and snarky. But in reality, it was like “Yeah, right. I don't know what to do about this.”
Ariana: Or like, “why did you do it like that?” Right? That's such a loaded phrase because—
Janel: “Why did you do it like that”?
Ariana: Yeah you're like, oh, “why did you do it like that?” Or like, “why did you do it like that?” It's something I see a lot in like, art stuff. So yeah, it's like, it's a whole thing.
Janel: Well, you're in the art community. How do you—
Ariana:—Online. Basically, the only way that people figure it out is they just like—non-writers, and you know people who are like insecure about themselves and what they have to say, well basically, the answers to add a bunch of filler words and be like, “oh, I'm not trying to be mean or anything but genuinely what is this,” or you know “why did you do it like that?” Or “I'm curious why you made that choice.” What I usually say is like, “oh, I'm curious why you made that choice. Was it because of XYZ reason, or XY like other reason or something like that.” And so you like give two options and you make it more friendly. But a lot of people I noticed that are not—
Janel: They just ask, why did you do it like that?
Ariana: Well, some people do. And then you can never tell if they're like [laughter]---
Janel: If they’re going to bite you or not.
Ariana: They're like, are you being, mean? Or are you curious? But then to ensure that they don't sound like that, like they're being mean, then people just go way overboard on the other end and they don't—They're not assertive. Or they're not like asking question, they just sound like they're just like, “oh, well, I want to ask a question if it's not too much inconvenience.”
Janel: Yeah, and that is like such a red flag for trauma.
Ariana: oh yeah. [laughter] The entire comment section on every social media platform is a red flag for trauma. You're like, “oh, okay.” People who aren't traumatized in that area just scroll by.
Janel: They don't recognize it. And then those of us who have trauma in those areas look and read them like, “oh my God, this is a train wreck this poor person.” And it is learning the language. And yet it is that language that connects us to other people who understand that language.
Ariana: Yep.
Janel: After I began listening to Brene Brown speak about the language of shame, and some of the very specific examples she gives, which of course I can't give you—
Ariana: We could do a whole podcast episode on shame, and I might suggest it—
Janel: —Ana’s just pushing for this.[inaudible] Which is fine. I'm still early. I recognize it, but I am definitely not ready to teach on it. I do have thoughts. It is very much the language that connects us. So, you know, instead of going “Well, why did you do that?” It becomes “Were you considering X or Y when you offered Z? Is that where that came from?”
Ariana: Yeah, you have to specify what specifically you're asking. Because if you say, oh, why did you do that? It's like, it could mean literally anything. It's like you have to clarify what it is that you're confused about. Like are you trying to decide whether they did it for one reason or another and so you got to specify that those are the two reasons that you're thinking and not like, oh you did this because you're an idiot. [laughter] It's like clarifying, but not clarifying too much that you're like a pushover and you're, you know—
Janel: Groveling for the answer and wondering if you're worthy enough for the answer. It's such a delicate balance. This is the thing that I sit down in classes and we have these conversations and it's like okay “give me your phrase, put it down, let's write it, and then let's dissect it.” This is not something I just come up with. I contemplated sitting down and finding answers, but I'm like, eh, let's just talk about it. This is—This is where live coaching and the engagement comes in because we can sit down and we can look at your work. And I can make specific input to where you're at and what you do. And there is power—there's power in that. Having somebody take your words and edit them for you real time. And it's like, even if I do it privately and then send it to you and you sit them side by side, that has been really powerful for some of my clients. There is something beautiful about the process of editing. There is a power in clarity.
Janel: This is one of the reasons that writing groups are so important because you have a group of people with different life experiences come together to look at each other's work and go, did you really mean this because that sounds awful aggressive, or not nice. Or—
Ariana: What's funny actually, you say that and you say writing groups and I think fiction because that's what I do. It’s what I think about and I was thinking well, actually I have two things. So I was thinking, because I always think about fiction you can address tone in fiction.
Janel: Yes.
Ariana: Very easily. Like, oh, your character says xyz happily or—
Janel: It’s almost cheating—
Ariana: Or your brows are furrowed or something like that. Like you can talk about that in fiction. So it's nonfiction mostly.
Janel: Right. And well, and that's where you have to learn how to add your emotion and your action with nouns and verbs.
Ariana: Right. In fiction, you can fake the tone.
Janel: In fiction we can fake the tone. So you were saying about, in fiction it’s easy to edit out.
Ariana: You can always add tone and you don't have to worry about somebody misinterpreting what you're saying because, well, your character, your point of view character is interpreting their own words and other people's words for you. And there's like body language and if—I mean, it's like a whole different skill but it's not the same as having to write nonfiction where you are, you know, the character telling people things.
Janel: Right. And in writing, nouns are very important. As are verbs because, you know, you want to avoid really, and actually, and adverbs and filler words because they cloud your point.
Ariana: You want to avoid worthless adverbs.
Janel: Well, I use them at certain points. See— well here's the thing. Knowing the rules and knowing what you're supposed to do means that you can break the rules.
Ariana: Yeah.
Janel: To reinforce a point.
Ariana: Well yeah, but the—Are we gonna go on a tangent about this?
Janel: Well, it's like saying “Oh that was really great!” instead of saying, “Oh, that was fantastic.”
Ariana: Well, I was thinking more like, oh, “they smiled happily.” Like that's a worthless—happily is an unnecessary word. They smiled. Versus if you say—
Janel: —Right, but you still want to convey—
Ariana: —they smile sadly. That's a good adverb or whatever, but it says something different. Maybe I'm not remembering what an adverb is.
Janel: No, you got the L-Y. [laughter] Really, very, happily, you know, all of those parts
Ariana: Saying stuff like really and very are unnecessary a lot of times.
Janel: But seriously, it becomes um, you know, very happy
Ariana: Oh, I forgot. We were also talking about the difference between fiction and nonfiction. She's talking about nonfiction. You don't add—I'm thinking about character descriptions like, oh, “they smiled sadly” is a good adverb versus “they smiled happily,” which is a pointless adverb because we already know that smiling is happy.
Janel: But see, wouldn't it be like “you could see the sorrow on their brow.” Wouldn’t that be more beautiful and descriptive instead of “they smiled sadly.” “Their mouth echoed the sorrow in their brow.” You know, I mean, come on. [laughter]
Ariana: What?! Okay.
Janel: Back to grammar class for you.
Ariana: Anyway [laughter] I feel we should take you back to creative writing class.
Janel: Creative Writing 101 for the editor. Sure, I'll go back to creative writing class.
Ariana: Anyways.
Janel: But it is, it’s about tone. It is about the words we choose and we can convey very different things through the use of very well placed nouns and descriptive verbs instead of adding clutter.
Ariana: Yeah, my second point was that you always say, you know, that whole
“first 20,000 words is the hardest” which is such ugh. [laughter] I think it's not just writing the first 20,000 words. It's like writing and editing the first 20,000 words. Because You can write anything. You can even try to match, you know, the tone or what it is that you want to write, like your golden thread or whatever. And you can write that, but you could be writing the first 20,000 words terribly. It's not until you edit them to turn them into what it is that you need them to be and what you mean for them to be and where they're effective at what they're meant to do. That you learn about what it is that it is you're trying to do. Does that make any sense?
Janel: Oh, no, it does. It does. Well, see, I have always edited it in line. Yeah, I [laugh] I just got the hand in the face.
Ariana: ugh
Janel: Yeah, I have always edited in line.
Ariana: As someone who writes my stories on paper, I can't do that.
Janel: Right. No.
Ariana: I can do that. I can look back and say eeehh, and scratch out a whole paragraph, but that's different.
Janel: Oh, see, when I do that, [inaudible] when I'm really chewing on something, and I need to really work through a concept, I will write it down on paper. Oh, that's another tip for writing. If you are really struggling with a concept, put it on paper. Because what happens is when we start typing, there is a processing part of our brain that we can put the words down before we can actually, we can type them faster than we can process them. So the speed of handwriting is actually the speed of which our brain actually processes stuff. Yes, some people are faster, some people are slower. But unless you’ve really thought through the concepts and understand what you're trying to convey, it really is those first drafts where you're just learning to write, it really is better to at least take some notes or key sentences. And then after you think through them, don't go back and read them. Just take it and just like do a brain dump of the concepts. Because your hands will process at the speed of your brain, then throw them in your word processing document, tippity tap, and go back and revisit them. And it'll give you clarity about editing.
Janel: And editing is a whole different art. There are tips, there are tricks. Things I share in my email list, one of the things that got me writing again after 10 years of not writing after my brain injury in 2008, was just creating a book that had all of the things I learned as an editor. And just doing that massive brain dump and putting it all in there and then, you know, setting it up and going back for it. And I actually talk about how to edit and how to create this stuff. At some point, I hope to publish this book. I have stuff that's more pressing right now, but there is an art to editing that has to be learned.
Janel: And it really is about finding your pattern. The words you overuse, the sentence structures you overuse, and just learning to mix that up with verbs and nouns that really support what it is you're trying to convey.
Ariana: Yeah. So that.
Janel: So that?
Ariana: That's what I'm saying.
Janel: oh
Ariana: What I said earlier of, Well, okay, not necessarily, I zoned out for a second and I lost track of where we were. Anyways, so yes, that is what I mean about the first 20,000 words being hardest. I can't believe I'm making an argument for a phrase that you use that I hate. [laughter] Like, I hate the phrase so bad, it's so annoying. But I’m making an argument for it now. But yeah, that's what I mean.
Janel: But you see the wisdom in it, even if you hate it.
Ariana: Yeah, well, now I do. Now that I was thinking about it. It's not just about, you know, oh, I got to write down the first couple words and scribble it on paper and it's fine. It's about turning those words into what you intend them to be.
Janel: So they actually say—
Ariana: Yeah, so they actually say what you mean for them to say. And so it's not just like the process of writing the words. I'm the girl, [laugh] I'm the girl who wrote [laughter] I am the girl who drew Unicorns for 30 days in the exact same way when I was like 10 years old because somebody had said, oh, “practice makes perfect. If you draw something for 30 days, then you're going to get better at it.” And I drew it the exact same way for 30 days because I thought that I would get better. And so this is me taking advice literally, like the first 20,000 words are the hardest. I'm like, oh, so writing them down. Regardless of content or anything. You know, coming up with all that stuff to say is the hardest part. No, no, that's not the hardest part. I missed the message completely. Like it's not about [laughter] the actual act of writing them or anything like that. It's the act of turning them into what you need them to be and what you mean for them to be.
Janel: Yeah and it shares the information, the lessons, the wisdom, the entertainment, whatever it is that you hope to get across.
Ariana: [sigh] Yeah, I guess you're right. ugh. Nooo
Janel: I'm not even going to rub it in and say something smart like “mama knows best” because mama doesn't always know best.
Ariana: Yeah [laughter]
Janel: But yeah, sometimes mama gets it right.
Ariana: Sometimes I guess, experiences or whatever.
Janel: You know what, it's practice makes perfect. It's clarifying your message. It is figuring out what you have to say. As I've gone back and I've edited my email sequence that I started four years ago, which is what I was going to say and got distracted, the more clarity I have around my message, who needs to hear it, what I'm offering, the easier it is to one, finish the unfinished messages, and emails, and articles that I have, it's easier to finish them now than when I started. Because, you know, before I would start with a story idea. I want to tell this story and I get it all written out, and then it'd be like Oh. I don't know what to do with this. Now I know what to do with this because, oh, that story? That belongs to that pattern and that's what I'm writing on.
Ariana: Everything you see can become part of your golden thread.
Janel: Absolutely.
Ariana: Everything you create.
Janel: Yeah. And all these disjointed stories, these disjointed experiences have a golden thread. They have a connection to your pattern, your specific pattern. And once you begin to identify them, it's like, “Oh, that's what I've been missing this whole time?” And then it becomes easy to define your niche, to find your audience, and to share your story. And that's how you transform people's lives. Until next time.
Ariana: See ya!
Janel: Bye!
Janel voiceover: [music] Thanks so much for joining us today! I’m Janel Guevara. I hope you caught a glimmer of hope, a glimpse of possibility, and a sprinkle of fairy dust. Join us next time when we take another step towards Transforming Your Story.
Janel voiceover: Content for educational purposes only. Our stories are not your stories Please be cautious and contact your local domestic violence hotline if you need support. [music ends]
